Comments on Farine: Meet the Baker: Gérard Rubaud

Sam, thanks for your visit. It is interesting that...

2010-01-26T21:58:41.187-05:00

Sam, thanks for your visit. It is interesting that you should say that because Gérard likes to say about shaping : "whenever you work dough, count your gestures. Then think about them and eliminate the ones that have no real purpose. You'll be surprised how few you need in the end". I will soon be posting a video where he teaches how to shape a batard.

Sorry, I don't like being referred to as "6p00d834...

2010-01-26T14:46:59.353-05:00

Sorry, I don't like being referred to as "6p00d8341cc84e53ef" so will sign in another way. Best, Sam

Very interesting post, committed passionate baker....

2010-01-26T14:45:08.146-05:00

Very interesting post, committed passionate baker. I also loved the relaxed way he shaped his loaves. We often try to hard. He doesn't.

Hi, Michael, thank you for your visit. I too find ...

2010-01-21T17:50:17.210-05:00

Hi, Michael, thank you for your visit. I too find Gérard to be a great source of inspiration and I am glad it comes through in the post.

Great story. I've read it twice today and have it...

2010-01-21T13:13:04.805-05:00

Great story. I've read it twice today and have it bookmarked for insipration. Thank you and Gerard.

Michael - Lyman, ME

Thank you for your kind words, Eric. I am glad you...

2010-01-11T13:56:29.783-05:00

Thank you for your kind words, Eric. I am glad you enjoyed the visit with Gérard. I should have been more precise and will amend the post accordingly. The first fermentation ("pointage" in French) is indeed done in the big wooden box but the word "rest" was misleading. That fermentation can last up to 4 hours. Then comes the resting on the bench, the weighing, the pre-shaping and the shaping, then the second proofing ("apprêt" in French) which can last up to 3 hours.
I hope this makes it clearer. Thanks for pointing out my confusing choice of words.

MC, What an interesting interview. From my own exp...

2010-01-11T11:52:38.880-05:00

MC,
What an interesting interview. From my own experience with feed a mixture of grains to the starter, it does become very active. I was using a 80% hydration and found if I didn't stay right on the feeding schedule I would miss the peak. At 50% it would be easier to use I suspect.

One thing that isn't clear is you mention that Gerhard says the first ferment is to develop flavors and the second for producing gas. Your description of the process doesn't mention a first ferment. The dough goes from the mixer to the box for a rest and onto the work surface for dividing/pre shape and shape, whereupon it is proofed(fermented) for 3 hours before baking. Unless I missed something, including the autolyse, that is around 4 hours from mix to bake. Can this be right? But, perhaps the activity of the levain is such that flavors develop quickly. I'd be interested in hearing your reply.

Good work MC, as usual!
Eric (ehanner)

MC... I have been coming back and soaking up your ...

2010-01-09T09:25:36.312-05:00

MC...
I have been coming back and soaking up your story...when my brain gets to saturated with studying French. It is going slowly...but I am determined! I think you really captured the essence of the man!
Judd

MC, I read your Gerard Rubaud story a second time...

2010-01-06T17:10:15.945-05:00

MC,

I read your Gerard Rubaud story a second time and found something really interesting to me. Correct me if I am wrong:

(1) He uses his starter after seven hour of fermenting; the two drawings you have (one showing the levain after the first feeding, and the next showing seven hours later) seems to indicate to that effect.

(2) If this is the case, why does the description to the first drawing read, “… levain after the first feeding?” Is there another feeding before this levain is taken to make the final dough? I am guessing NO.

(2) As his starter is a 50% hydration starter, and at only seven hours of fermenting, when he uses his starter to make his final dough, the starter looks like a piece of dough, as the three little pictures show (after the above two drawings). What is in the three small pictures are the cut-up levain, ready to be combined into the autolysed final dough flour and water, right?

Thank you.

Shiao-Ping

MC This is one of the most moving and beautiful "...

2010-01-06T01:21:44.974-05:00

MC

This is one of the most moving and beautiful "meet the bakers" stories I have ever read. So much love coming out of your description of Gerard Rubaud, the man, and his way of making the pain au levain. I have not read of such a moving story for a long, long time. Your effort in bringing his story to readers and viewers is most appreciated. Hats off to you, MC!

Your story gave me a few questions:

(1) His 50%-hydration stiff levain is ready to be fed every 5 hours. What is his room temperature? It sounds like very fast maturing stiff starter to me. Or, unless he feeds only a small amount of flours each time? If the flours he feeds the starter is 100%, what is the starter percentage, 40%?

(2) You said that when he mixes his final dough, his starter is 35% to final dough flours. What is the baker's percentage of the all-purpose flour that he uses in his final dough, 70%? Is this the same baker's percentage for the all-purpose flour that he uses to feed his starter?

(3) What about the baker's percentages of the rye, WW, and spelt flours in both the final dough and when he feeds the starter? If this is too proprietary to answer, it would be perfectly fine for me. I would understand.

And, lastly
(4) What is "pain fantaisie?" Oh, are you referring to the "wonder bread" of the modern mass-produced factory bread?

Thank you soooo... much for your post.

Regards,
Shiao-Ping

@Mimi, I am glad you enjoyed the visit. It was a w...

2009-12-05T08:00:13.346-05:00

@Mimi, I am glad you enjoyed the visit. It was a wonderful experience indeed to see him at work.
@Anonymous1, I gave him the message!
@Anonymous2, I'll mention it to him...

How about you and Gerard doing a Book together on ...

2009-12-04T17:09:55.998-05:00

How about you and Gerard doing a Book together on a longer video.. Merci

Please, please, please tell Mr. Gerard to bring hi...

2009-11-22T07:53:42.390-05:00

Please, please, please tell Mr. Gerard to bring his bread back to a store in Fairfax!!!!

Great article and great videos. It was nice to se...

2009-11-12T21:07:12.100-05:00

Great article and great videos. It was nice to see him work.

Hi, Steve! Thanks for stopping by! Yes, you are ri...

2009-11-12T21:06:54.569-05:00

Hi, Steve! Thanks for stopping by! Yes, you are right. Gérard is very special to both James and the owners of Wave Hill Breads, although I wouldn't say they are his protégés. I would say that Gérard is their mentor. What does it make them? Mentorees? You would looooooooove talking to Gérard.

MC, I very much enjoy all your "meet the baker" po...

2009-11-12T17:11:03.446-05:00

MC, I very much enjoy all your "meet the baker" posts, with this one in particular. I first heard of Gérard from our mutual friend James, who also had the pleasure of meeting Gérard at his Vermont bakery. I also understand that the owners of Wave Hill Breads are protégés of Gérard.

Thank you very much MC! I'm waiting your post. Gio...

2009-11-10T07:10:46.337-05:00

Thank you very much MC! I'm waiting your post.
Giovanni

Giovanni, I spoke with Gérard and he's going to tr...

2009-11-09T14:47:13.315-05:00

Giovanni, I spoke with Gérard and he's going to try and put something together in writing that I could post on Farine to answer some of the questions the readers might have. It may take a while, though...

Bonjour, Anne-Laure, et merci de ta visite! I adde...

2009-11-09T12:23:02.690-05:00

Bonjour, Anne-Laure, et merci de ta visite! I added a picture of the little grinder to the post as well as information as to where it can be found online.

MC, Merci pour ton magnifique reportage. Je rêve...

2009-11-09T12:02:32.516-05:00

MC,

Merci pour ton magnifique reportage. Je rêve d'aller manger du pain de Gérard. J'espère un jour réussir à avoir d'aussi beaux gestes pour faire mon pain. En attendant, as-tu une photo du "manual grinder" utilisé pour broyer des éléments à incorporer au levain ?
Anne-Laure

@Judd, interestingly Gérard doesn't keep a liquid ...

2009-11-09T07:49:36.048-05:00

@Judd, interestingly Gérard doesn't keep a liquid levain. One of the reasons is because, historically-speaking, there is no tradition of liquid levain in French bread-making and he is making "pains de tradition". But the main reason is that it is much easier to control aromas with a firm levain. With a liquid one, fermentation is way too fast to give you much room for playing with flavors.
@Jeremy, I know my bread-making improved when I switched to all-purpose, so I wasn't surprised when Frank told us during Artisan I at SFBI that all-purpose was the way to go. But I read in a comment on a Spanish blog that when you make one of these doughs that are too wet to actually shape, then you get better oven rise and a more open crumb if you use high-protein flour. I am going to give it a try.

I am starting to believe that AP is the better ans...

2009-11-09T07:32:19.986-05:00

I am starting to believe that AP is the better answer then bread flour, as my breads seem to be too doughy or tight with Bread flour?? Will have to do a comparison and will get back to you on it!?

Jeremy

thanks for the great piece... i will have to go ba...

2009-11-08T20:39:25.350-05:00

thanks for the great piece...
i will have to go back and really disgest it...
especially the part about the levain build...
I wish i could afford to study with him...
thanks....
Judd

Hi, John, yes, Gérard creates a new starter every ...

2009-11-08T17:30:27.034-05:00

Hi, John, yes, Gérard creates a new starter every so often and says that this hullaballoo about using a starter that has belonged to your great-grandma or has crossed the US on the Oregon trail and so forth makes for a great conversation piece but as far as bread is concerned, it is completely off the mark. He thinks that such a starter is way too acidic for a baker to coax great aromas out of it. This opinion is shared by most German bakers according to Thorsten Philippi, the German baker who taught the German Breads class at SFBI last September. Apparently German bakers renew their starters several times a year to the point that many of them have a contract with a starter company that sends them a new one at regular intervals. Interestingly though, Jeff Hamelman - who was also trained by a German baker, albeit in Vermont - believes that his rye starter is all the better for being already more than 26 years-old. So there are definitely two schools of thought, both valid. I would think that Gerard's habit of changing his starter regularly is one of the reasons why his bread is so extraordinary because it is the right decision for the type of dough he makes. No "pain fantaisie" in his repertoire, although when pressed, he will admit that it might be okay to like both his bread and the vast array of pains fantaisie that can be made today (I think he was trying to be kind as I had told him I loved all kinds of breads). :-)
In answer to your other question, he uses the same all-purpose flour as Jeff Hamelman, i.e. King Arthur's Sir Galahad (a.k.a. all-purpose flour). I believe the protein level is around 10.5%. Both at SFBI and at the Baking Center, instructors have repeatedly told us that this is the protein-level most appropriate for artisan baking. So there is no discrepancy there. What's annoying though is that in many books, the author uses the term "bread flour" to actually refer to a 10.5% protein all-purpose flour and not to the flour that is sold as "bread flour" in the supermarkets, including under the King Arthur brand and which has a higher level of protein. For more info, I refer you to this post:
http://www.farine-mc.com/2009/09/flour-brief-recap.html

Wow, thanks MC for all this great info - but it ra...

2009-11-08T15:56:31.692-05:00

Wow, thanks MC for all this great info - but it raises sev questions:
* Are you saying that Gerard creates a new starter every so often, and that he "does not" keep it going as we all have been led to believe is proper? How does he know when his levain is off balance?
* Another popular belief is that high gluten (high protein)flours are best if one is working with high hydration doughs! Gerard says, No? What kind of flour is he using? Protein level?